210 – Impact Lab POV – Better Volunteer Offboarding with Ruth Leonard

April 16, 2026

Episode #210: Impact Lab POV – Better Volunteer Offboarding with Ruth Leonard

Volunteer engagement doesn’t end when service concludes. In fact, how organizations say goodbye to their volunteers can have a lasting impact on relationships, reputation, and future support. Yet, volunteer offboarding is often overlooked or treated as an administrative task rather than a meaningful opportunity for connection.

In this episode of the Volunteer Nation Podcast, part of the Impact Lab POV Series, host Tobi Johnson sits down with volunteer engagement expert Ruth Leonard, who also serves as a Guest Advisor for VolunteerPro, to explore how intentional offboarding can strengthen organizational culture and foster long-term loyalty. Together, they reframe offboarding as a relationship-building process that honors volunteers’ contributions while keeping the door open for future involvement.

Ruth shares insights on the importance of transparency around volunteer tenure, the role of rituals and recognition in creating dignified transitions, and how thoughtful exit interviews can preserve valuable knowledge. The conversation also highlights the benefits of maintaining alumni connections and celebrating service as a way to reinforce human dignity and community trust.

Listeners will discover practical strategies to design meaningful volunteer exits, shift their mindset from transactional to relational engagement, and ensure that every volunteer’s journey ends with appreciation and purpose. Ruth also offers a preview of her upcoming seminar focused on helping volunteers leave well while staying connected.

If you’re looking to enhance retention, protect your organization’s reputation, and create lasting relationships with your volunteers, this episode provides the inspiration and actionable guidance to get started.

Volunteer Offboarding – Episode Highlights

• [00:00] Introduction to Volunteer Nation Podcast
• [03:33] Ruth Leonard’s Journey into Volunteerism
• [05:24] The Importance of Volunteerism Today
• [08:10] Understanding Volunteer Offboarding
• [12:51] The Significance of Proper Offboarding
• [15:50] Consequences of Poor Offboarding Practices
• 19:10] Practical Steps for Effective Offboarding
• [23:51] Creating a Culture of Connection
• [27:54] Mindset Shifts for Volunteer Leaders
• [30:06] Looking Ahead: Future of Volunteerism

Helpful Links

• VolunteerPro Impact Lab 
• Volunteer Management Progress Report  
• Volunteer Nation Episode #122: Rethinking Community Involvement with Ruth Leonard 
• Volunteer Nation Episode #140: Volunteer Performance Issues – How to (Finally) Have that Chat! 
• Find Ruth on LinkedIn
• Get Ruth’s Latest Book – Volunteer Involvement: An Introduction to Theory and Practice 
• Volunteer Involvement: an Introduction to Theory and Practice

Contact Us

Have questions or suggestions for the show? Email us at wecare@volpro.net.

Rate, Review, & Follow Us on Apple Podcasts

If you love the content Tobi shares on the Volunteer Nation podcast, consider rating and reviewing the show! This helps us reach more people – and help more good causes just like yours – successfully engage enthusiastic, dedicated volunteers with less stress and more joy.

Click here, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars. Then, select “Write a Review” and let us know what you loved most about this episode!

Also, if you haven’t done so already, follow the podcast so you don’t miss a thing. Follow now!

Subscribe to ProNews: Our Weekly Resource Roundup

If you’d like to stay up to date on all new podcasts, blogs, freebies, and deals posted on our Tobi Johnson & Associates and VolunteerPro websites, subscribe to our weekly ProNews newsletter.

Every Wednesday, we’ll send you a digest of our freshest content, plus a bonus! Once you confirm your subscription, you’ll get our [Free eBook] The New Volunteer Manager: The First 90 Days.

Episode #210 Transcript: Impact Lab POV – Better Volunteer Offboarding

Tobi Johnson:
Welcome everybody to another episode of the Volunteer Nation podcast. I’m your host Tobi Johnson and I am pumped as usual, I always am when I have guests on, where I’m gonna interview my friend Ruth Leonard. And I’m gonna introduce Ruth in a minute, but I wanna call out that this is part of our Impact Lab POV series. We are spotlighting bold ideas and practical strategies from our new Volunteer Pro Impact Lab guest advisors.

Ruth Leonard:
Yeah, I am. Yeah, I’m back.

Tobi:
Six new instructors who’ve joined us inside the Impact Lab and are offering really wonderful training for intermediate to advanced practitioners. You can still learn if you’re a beginner and there’s lots to share today. But I really hand chose our folks that are guest advisors with us for their special expertise. Each brings something unique to the table.

So in each of these episodes of the Impact Lab POV series, we’re gonna explore a unique point of view and then invite you all to go deeper inside our membership where our guest advisors are going to be leading hands-on training to help you apply what you learn. So I will be inviting you to join later today or later during this episode. Today’s guest advisor is Ruth Leonard. She’s an expert in effective volunteer and community engagement and a past podcast episode guest, right, Ruth? We’ve been training together a few times. We’ve had some fun. So today we’re going to dive into how to better off-board volunteers with care and compassion and how to keep connections with them after they leave. And I can’t wait for you to hear her perspective.

Ruth:
Yeah, I am. Yeah, I’m back.

Tobi:
For more insights from Ruth, also check out Volunteer Nation episode 122, Rethinking Community Involvement, where Ruth talks about some of the insights from her book. And I’ll link to her book as well. I know she’s also working on a new book. So get up. Yeah, we are. We’re trying to work on these books, aren’t we? So before we get started, though, let me, if you didn’t listen to that episode or haven’t had a chance yet,

Ruth Leonard is the chair of the UK’s Association of Volunteer Managers and she has held lead volunteering posts in UK-wide charities such as Macmillan Cancer Support and Samaritans. Ruth supports organizations to develop inclusive volunteer engagement strategies, enhancing efficiency and stakeholder satisfaction and pioneering volunteer-involving offers and services. She’s the co-author of the book Volunteer Involvement and is a frequent public speaker appearing on podcasts and charity conferences. Ruth is also the head and president of RBL Consulting. For Ruth, volunteer management is about empowering and enabling people to bring creativity and ingenuity to a solution to make a difference in their community. Having been involved in volunteer management for over two decades, she has significant experience providing leadership on involving and engaging people and is committed to ensuring others are able to develop those skills. So welcome to the pod, Ruth, again.

Ruth:
Thank you, Tommy. Toby, it’s great to be here.

Tobi:
Excellent. Well, you know, I know we’ve got lots to bring to the table. I know that one of Ruth’s key perspectives is really about equity and making sure volunteers are treated as true partners. But before we get into that, tell how did you; I love to talk about people’s birth stories when it comes to volunteerism. How did you get into the world of volunteerism to begin with, Ruth?

Ruth:
Probably like lots of people I fell into it. So when I was a child, I wanted to be a journalist and I trained in becoming a journalist. I got my national certificate of journalism, but then I couldn’t get a job in journalism. So I ended up volunteering in a press team at a large charity. And from there, I got to know what it was like to work with volunteers and the amazing stories that you could get.

So I went for a job in the volunteering team at that charity and the rest is history. But I discovered that I could do the things involving volunteers that were really important to me from journalism; telling the stories, advocating, looking at things around social justice, and really being where people were and helping them to amplify what they needed to do. It was a perfect element. In that role in the volunteering team, I was able to grow and develop and learn what it really meant to give power to volunteers and have them take leadership. So with Samaritans, a lot of that happened and I just wanted to be part of helping people make that difference and then helping those who worked with them to know how they could be doing that and building relationships.

Tobi:
Absolutely. Tell me a little bit about why you think volunteerism in today’s world in particular is so important.

Ruth:
I think volunteering is and has always been important. It’s one of the real ways of having people make that difference. It’s a true way of showing democracy, of being able to see a need in your local community or the global community, or universe if you’re a climate change activist, and to start to do something and make a difference. There’s a quote from Margaret Mead that talks about the power of committed individuals making that change, and that’s the only thing that ever has done. And I think that’s something that we need more and more.

And the whole element of relationships; I think volunteer involvement is about building relationships and enabling relationships between others. In this increasingly divided world, I think that’s really important to be able to hear from and meet people who are different from you and share those ideas to make the world a better place.

Tobi:
Yeah, absolutely. Could not agree more. I mean, even now, I saw a statistic recently that in the US at least 33%, about one third of the entire nonprofit workforce is unpaid volunteers. Like imagine if one third of the services went away tomorrow.

Ruth:
Mm.

Tobi:
It’s, you know, it’s so essential. So there’s that, you know, helping hands piece of it, the talent, the community talent that’s being leveraged. I think you’re right also that there is this connection-building aspect as well. And volunteerism benefits the volunteer, the organization, the people who are impacted by that organization, the community at large. Sort of the culture of the community is really knit together through volunteers because otherwise folks wouldn’t, aside from transactional relationships, they wouldn’t come into contact with each other except in the store or at school. There’s not a lot of spaces for community members to come together and just learn about one another as they’re working side by side.

Ruth:
And I’ve been doing some thinking recently about values and how volunteering can really give action to your own internal values in a way that other parts of society, including working, might not be able to do. You can really bring into life the things that you inherently care about.

Tobi:
Yeah, yeah, that’s a great point too. So we’re going to talk about volunteer offboarding. And I think it’s a topic that doesn’t get enough attention. I think we do so much work on recruitment and onboarding, and when it comes time for the fun farewell, it gets very, you know, usually it’s just abrupt. Like a volunteer says, “Well, I’m out, you know, I’m done.” Whether it’s a positive leaving or, you know, maybe they’re retiring from volunteering, maybe they’re not. Maybe it’s a planned exit or not a planned exit. But I feel like we don’t do enough around volunteer offboarding. So let’s start with what’s a belief or value you hold about volunteer offboarding that you think most people in the field might tend to get wrong.

Ruth:
I think it’s as you described it. We concentrate so much on bringing people in, and numbers are important so that we bring more and more people in, that we actually don’t consciously and intentionally think about that ending. I think we have that feeling that because a relationship has ended, that that means that there’s been a problem and we’ve done something wrong to cause it. We spend a lot of time avoiding trying to make that happen. But if we do think about volunteer involvement as a relationship, they all have these ebbs and flows, and it’s always an opportunity to be able to recognise when something has run its course or something can pause.

So I would encourage people to think, rather than “How do I avoid this at all costs?” think about being upfront about it and talking at the beginning. You don’t have to stay here forevermore; you stay here as long as you can and do what you want to do, and there’s always a way to be out. So I think, as you were talking about recruitment, we always think about that as a sexy big part of the relationship, but actually thinking about keeping and then giving permission for people to leave is probably so much more important because that’s what really creates that sense of purpose and belonging and can give a positive experience to the volunteers, which they can then go on and tell to other volunteers about. So ironically, it becomes a recruitment tool.

Tobi:
Absolutely. I mean, I think in some respects, if you make offboarding transparent at the beginning, it also gives people a sense of trust. Look, I’m not signing my life away. There is a finite amount that I can give to this organization. They understand that.

Ruth:
Yes.

Tobi:
They want to make the most of this relationship, so do I. And you know, like I had a really good friend of mine, Robert, who used to be; I used to do a fitness bootcamp and I’d get up at like five o’clock every morning and do this awesome bootcamp. And he used to say, “Look, some people are in your life for a reason or a season.” And, you know, we have to accept that.

You know, and there’s also other ways to continue a relationship. Even, you know, you have friends you see all the time and then for a while you don’t see them. They might come back or they’ve moved on. You know, it’s a respectful way, I think, of working. When you’ve thought about volunteer offboarding, was there a time or was there something that changed your mind over the past few decades when you thought about it? Was there a point in time where you thought, “This is more than I thought it was?”

Ruth:
Yeah, I was one of those people who used to think I was failing. If volunteers wanted to leave, you wanted to leave me, I didn’t keep the project going well enough. I wasn’t giving you enough interesting things to do. But I think it was during that recognition that actually I was having a relationship with you and we were building those conversations and I was really understanding what you might want. That was at Samaritans, I think, that that really came true—being able to understand people. I loved that “people stay for a reason or season” idea. There is an opportunity to work with people to let them go and honor the legacy and then to think about, as you’ve also pointed out, how we could be evolving them in different ways that isn’t volunteering and how we can make the door open.

So I think it was, whilst I was at Samaritans, building those relationships, which was a completely volunteer-led organization, and recognizing it’s fine. It’s not me. It’s not that we’re doing anything wrong. It’s just that it’s right for the volunteer. And it is about recognising the volunteers as people, individuals, as having agency in this genuine relationship and partnership and not about just trying to keep people nailed down. That changed my mindset.

Tobi:
Yeah, absolutely. Why do you think it’s important to focus on volunteer offboarding? There’s so many things that leaders of volunteers could focus on right now. Why do you think this is so important, especially right now?

Ruth:
Yeah, I think when we ignore endings and we don’t give that proper chance to celebrate, to thank, to recognise the value that people are bringing at the end of that relationship, then we’re not giving true support or recognition to those volunteers or also volunteers coming behind them and being there as well. It’s really important to be able to say thank you, not just to cast somebody off as if it was a transactional relationship, but to acknowledge that you did matter and what you did here really, really matters.

And I think in what increasingly feels like a throwaway world, this whole value of volunteering needs to be definitely recognized for what it is. We should really say, “Thank you so much for what you’ve done,” and help people to feel that they can be engaged either with the organization that we’re working for or in another way of volunteering across the community.

Tobi:
Yeah, I mean, absolutely agree. It’s like, what memories do you want? We remember beginnings and endings. Human beings will pay more attention; there’s been research on webinars, and people are more attuned at the beginning of the webinar and at the end of the webinar. So if you’re a trainer, you always know you want to say important stuff at the beginning and important stuff at the end. And of course, people are paying attention throughout, but human beings really pay a lot of attention to first impressions and how they leave something.

And, you know, when we think about volunteer offboarding, what do we want people to remember about their volunteer experience? Ten years from now, when they…

Ruth:
Yeah, they want to come back. They want to recommend people to come back. They want to be thinking about, “That was a lovely time I had.”

Tobi:
Yeah. And even five or ten years from now, what kind of memory do you want to be in someone’s memory bank? You want them to feel like they had a really wonderful volunteering experience. And if their offboarding is horrible, they’re not going to remember the good stuff, right? They’re going to remember, like, “Wow, this was really awful.” It felt like I was just dropped off the dump truck or like, “Don’t let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.” You know what I mean?

Ruth:
And that’s after a long time of giving time and really enjoying it. To have that as your final memory—such a waste.

Tobi:
Yeah, yeah, such a waste. Have you seen any horror stories, or just in your own experience, what happens when leaders of volunteers don’t approach volunteer offboarding in the right way? What are the opportunity costs? You talked a little bit about transitioning to other roles or other relationships with the organization, but what are the broad range of opportunity costs if this isn’t done right?

Ruth:
Yeah, so these people are already a warm audience because they’re already committed to your organisation or to your cause. So if you just let that person go, it’s so much harder to recruit somebody who’s completely cold to any of the other roles that you’ve got. So obviously, fundraising and giving donations are really important to organisations. But really having that knowledge of what it’s been like as a volunteer can just start informing what the future of the organisation, the cause, or the project might be.

So you’re losing knowledge and history, you’re losing that sense of where the gaps might be that you might want to fill in different ways, and you’re losing potential funders and really committed people who will speak warmly about you in the community if you want to start raising money. So just cutting people off means that you haven’t got that anymore. Not even getting around to say thank you for going—because you’re not even sending that reminder, you’re just taking somebody off a database and all of a sudden they’re gone—and they’ve given time to you and they’re now not part of that anymore. You’ve lost such a huge resource.

Tobi:
Yeah, yeah. And not being purposeful—you also just nailed it on the head of losing that intellectual capital, not only the social capital. When people leave, they’re still going to talk about you. If your charity comes up in conversation, they’re going to say, “Yeah, I used to volunteer there,” right?

Ruth:
Yep. Good or bad.

Tobi:
But you’re also losing their skill set and knowledge of the role that they were working in. And if you don’t do it purposefully, all of the wisdom that they built up in that role, if you’re not transitioning that knowledge, you’re not helping someone else onboard into that role, or you’re not creating SOPs, guidelines, or checklists, or you’re not doing an exit interview, you’re losing all of that really amazing knowledge. Because volunteers often, in my experience, the roles that they were working in, they knew more about the roles than I did. I didn’t work in that role. Even though I was training them on that role, I didn’t know all the tips and tricks of the role because I wasn’t in it every day.

Ruth:
Yep, that’s so true. Yeah, they know where the gaps are. Like you say, they know where the workarounds are to actually make it happen and they know the connections.

Tobi:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, let’s take a quick break. And after our chat with Ruth, after this chat with Ruth on how to do volunteer onboarding well, we’re going to talk a little bit more on what people can do, what practical tips people can take away and what actions you can take. So don’t go anywhere. We’ll be right back.

Okay, we’re back with our discussion with Ruth Leonard on how we can do volunteer offboarding a little more purposefully. So Ruth, let’s get into a little bit of practical steps people can take away. So we’ve talked about your thinking around volunteer offboarding with care and compassion. Can you share an example from your work with a client or in your own work where a slight change led to a significant impact?

Ruth:
I think it is about making sure you have that opportunity to have an exit interview, even if it’s a survey. Even if you don’t have that chance to talk to people, just to hear one thing that went well and one thing that you’d like to change can really inform how you might develop that volunteering opportunity that you’ve got so that people feel committed. But building on that, yes, it doesn’t matter if you just send the survey, but actually taking that time to have a conversation means that you hear more truth, more elements of what people are genuinely feeling, and they’re speaking to you as a human being so that they can say things that they might not otherwise say.

You don’t just get a generic brush-off of, “I’m leaving because I’ve got too much other things on.” It could be, “I really did love it, but this was happening,” and you get that better sense. So you, just as a volunteer manager running your program, learn so much more from those conversations. I do think, if at all possible, try to speak to somebody and really hear what that is. It could be a role for a volunteer to speak to other volunteers. It doesn’t have to be you yourself if you’ve got a huge amount of people, but that actual human conversation can feel really valuable to the volunteer themselves and bring you a lot of things that are going to be important.

Tobi:
Yeah, I think too, if you included it as part of your orientation that—because I’ll hear folks say that, “Well, nobody ever answers our surveys, our exit surveys,” or “I try to reach out to people for an exit interview and nobody gets back to me.” And I feel like you haven’t set them up for this, right?

If you include it as part of your onboarding, where you’re saying, “Here’s the life cycle of a volunteer or here’s your journey, here’s what you can expect.” At the very end, we really do want to talk to you about your experience. It’s how we continuously improve. It’s how we make a bigger impact. And whatever knowledge you have gained throughout your experience with us, we would love to know it. And here, by the way, are some of the things we’ve changed as a result of what volunteers have told us in the past.

Ruth:
Yeah, that’s what I was going to add, Toby, is that you’ve got to be able to show the volunteers that you have listened and you have made things happen. So that’s a really key bit.

Tobi:
So then they’re like, “Oh, if I say something now…” And obviously also like, “Hey, our doors are open. We’d rather not hear about it at the very end. If you have a suggestion for improvement, we will be surveying you throughout your experience,” and so on. But I think if we normalize it as part of the process; and you know, I think we’re also human beings.

I learned this from an executive director I worked for at a nonprofit. She talked a lot about rituals. There are so many different rituals that bond us, right? Rituals are things that happen as a normal course of whatever we’re involved in. They are also something that everybody knows how they work. It’s not a mystery. If you’re part of a group, you know what happens during that ritual; whether it’s awarding people a name tag, clapping people out at the end of a shift, or something else. It can be small or big. But your offboarding could be part of your rituals.

And everybody knows what it is, knows how it happens, and knows when it happens. Because you belong to this group, you are invited to be part of this ritual. If we treat it that way, it becomes part of the normal course of operations, not a special ask at the very end. So for someone who feels like they need to improve their volunteer offboarding—let’s say it’s very random right now, or they’re feeling heartbroken and taking it personally every single time a volunteer leaves—where should people begin? What’s your best advice for folks if they feel like they’re not doing this well or not doing it at all?

Ruth:
You mentioned earlier that the important thing is to think about how you want the volunteer to feel at the end of this. How do you want them to be looking back? And I’ll also pick up on the fact that sometimes volunteers leave because you want them to leave because something has gone wrong. But even so, we want to create a sign of dignity to give them the opportunity to recognise that they have still done something, and we want to reflect and respect that.

Some of the things that get in the way are people trying to avoid it because they don’t like conflict, and we have assumptions that if someone’s leaving, it means failure. So it’s about rethinking and rephrasing what it means to have an end. What does it mean to have somebody choosing to have given us their time and now leaving? And how can I help them feel the way that they want to feel?

So it’s about picking up on that relationship that you’ve got with that person and really having that care, making sure you’re giving that chance to honor what they’ve done and how they’ve been there. Just reframing it and creating that sense of legacy, having that sense that this is part of the celebration pattern. The key thing is not to fear it, but to welcome it. And I think that stretches across the whole of the volunteer journey; starting upfront, recognizing that this is going to come to an end at some point, and putting things in place to approach that with a curious and kind curiosity.

Tobi:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. What about keeping people on your mailing list? You talked about how they’re off your system or inactive on your VMS. It’s so horrible; you’ve been deleted, you become inactive. It’s like human beings! But what about keeping people on as other types of supporters or inviting people back? How do you navigate that transition?

Ruth:
Yeah, I think it’s really important as part of that whole offboarding process to think about how we still stay in touch. It might not be crude marketing; it could simply be, “Tobi, we want to let you know what’s going on. You’ve given so much time. How can we stay in touch with you?” So it’s having a regular, specific newsletter potentially for people who have stopped volunteering.

One organisation that I was working for created an alumni scheme for people who had been volunteers. It’s about respecting the knowledge and history that they have and giving people a sense of kudos. When they want to come back or recommend a family member or friend to volunteer, they already have a warm place to return to and can speak knowledgeably about the organization in their community. So yes, having that whole step in the journey of still staying in touch afterwards is important, and it gets easier with modern technology.

Tobi:
Yeah, no kidding. You can just say, “Do you want to stay on our mailing list? We’d love to keep in touch and let you know what’s up.” We talked about mindset shift a lot; really allowing for ends to happen and not taking it personally. Is there anything else that gets in the way of people doing this well?

Ruth:
I think there is a whole element of how organizations encourage us to think about numbers and retention as opposed to humans and building relationships. My book talks a lot about that—building relationships rather than just counting people. We need to ensure that people feel part of the community longer term. They’re part of your organisation or your cause because they’re committed. So let’s think about how we can see them as part of this ongoing community, not somebody who’s leaving it. Relationship thinking is where we want to come down to.

Tobi:
Yeah, it’s almost that people are part of a larger community, and it’s not like it’s surrounded by a moat where you’re either in or out. That’s not how human relationships work. You’re either closer to the middle or further away from it, and those relationships change throughout a volunteer’s lifecycle.

Ruth:
Mm-hmm. No.

Tobi:
Well, this has been a great conversation, Ruth. Thanks for joining us for our POV series with our Impact Lab guest advisors. Your upcoming seminar, Saying Goodbye: How to Help Volunteers Leave Well and Stay Connected, will happen on June 11th. Folks, if you want to get in on this training or join the community, there’s already a replay available if you’re listening after the fact. Ruth, what will you help people do differently, and who would benefit most from joining your training?

Ruth:
The training is designed to help individuals reframe what an ending is, practice self-compassionate language, create dignified transitions, and design ways for volunteers to stay involved with the community and the organisation afterwards if they choose to. The session is for anybody who wants to strengthen their volunteering culture; people who manage volunteers, coordinators, other volunteers, and anyone who feels challenged by how to say goodbye.

Tobi:
That’s a good one. Well, this has been a great conversation and a good reminder of something that is often not considered at all. I’m really excited to share this with you all as an audience and to encourage you to think about whether your offboarding gives people a sense of continued connection, not obligation.

Ruth:
Yeah, it’s not about hours or weeks or months. It’s about the time people have given and the impact they’ve made, and we want to stay involved with them.

Tobi:
Yeah, absolutely. Couldn’t say it better. So Ruth, this has been fun as always. One last question before we wrap up; what are you most excited about in the year ahead?

Ruth:
Well, you mentioned the second book, so I’m excited about getting that finished and published. I’m also excited to see the sector becoming more comfortable with thinking about volunteering as relationship- and values-driven, moving away from transactional roles and embracing a community-led spirit. And I’m excited about reading your book, Toby!

Tobi:
Yeah, and we’ll have you back on. Maybe we can have a time when both of our books are published and do a back-and-forth—that would be fun. One other thing I wanted to mention is that I’ll put links in the show notes for Ruth’s previous discussion and her book. If you want more on coaching volunteers before they leave, check out Volunteer Nation episode 140, Volunteer Performance Issues: How to Finally Have That Chat.

Thank you everybody for listening. Thank you, Ruth, for sharing these incredibly insightful ideas. If you’re ready to go beyond ideas and start building a modern, sustainable volunteer strategy, I invite you to join the Volunteer Pro Impact Lab. Ruth is one of six amazing guest advisors teaching this year.

And I want to thank you all for continuing to listen to the Volunteer Nation podcast. We will be here next week, same time, same place. See you then.